A Continuing Discussion on Setting Boundaries & Disrupting Normalcy

When I write a thread for Twitter, I can’t predict if it will go viral, or what the responses will be. I don’t know how it will be misunderstood, or where my words aren’t clear, until I see the responses to it. I always wish I could revise it for clarity, but you can’t edit tweets. With the thread about Trump supporters, all responses so far (they are still coming in) have fallen into 3 categories:

-85% of the people who responded love the thread. They said things like: It was a balm! It was a relief! It gave me hope! I didn’t realize I needed permission to stop putting up with the abuse. I wrote the thread for these people.

-10% of the responses are from die-hard Trump supporters. They typically haven’t read the thread and just take a moment out of their day to call me a cunt, yell at me for being intolerant, call me a fascist, and say they feel sorry for my kids. I block them and delete their comments.

-5% of the people who respond are not Trump supporters but feel very protective of them. They insist we can’t just “give up” on Trump supporters.

They say stuff like: we know you’ve been patient and understanding for 5 years now, but if we’re just more patient and more understanding, they’re bound to come around.

They explain that Trump supporters first and foremost need our compassion because of: a) “economic anxiety”, or b) they don’t even realize they’re openly racist, or c) they’ve been fooled and hoodwinked by Fox News (implying they don’t know how the internet works so they can’t find better information?).

I mean. Stop. Do you hear yourself? So they’re just allowed to continually shit on everyone around them? Why the endless excuses to protect them?

And the excuses aren’t even real. Research has been done on this. It’s not an economics question. Their main reason for voting Trump is racial anxieties — they are voting against equality.

I know many Trump supporters in real life, and none of the above excuses would apply to them. They are educated. They are well-off. Their lives are stable. They have access to the internet and know perfectly well how to find better information. They can see as well as I can that long lists of public-facing life-long republicans have rejected Trump.

They are choosing chaos, pain, and death for everyone else, while demanding normalcy for themselves.

Why be so protective of them? They are abusing my fellow citizens. They are abusing me. People are dying. Families are separated — at the border, and with travel bans. Huge amounts of jobs have been lost. The courts have been stuffed with unqualified right wing judges. The already weak safety nets in our country have been weakened further. Their actions hurt themselves too and they don’t care. Their primary goal seems to be to cause any non-Trump supporter pain.

Why is your first priority protecting the abusers? Why do these abusers never face consequences for their actions? Is there such a thing as a consequence that you would be comfortable enforcing? Or do you believe they should get to retain their normalcy despite the abuse they dole out?

You seem convinced they are the victims, and they are convinced they are too. But for four years they’ve had the Senate, the Presidency, the Courts, and they had the House for two of those years too. They won! They cheated, sought Russia’s help, suppressed votes, gerrymandered, and won. So how are they the victims? How will they be less a victim and more a winner if Trump is elected again?

If he wins, they won’t be magnanimous, they won’t want to help their fellow citizens, they will still claim victimhood and demand that we compromise and accommodate them.

Let’s talk about cult-thinking. There is no conversation you could have with a Trump supporter that would bring them around. That’s not an exaggeration. Consider: What new information could be brought to light which would persuade a Trump supporter now?

The answer is: Literally nothing. If there were hard evidence of Trump as a serial killer who made skin suits out of his victims, his supporters would find a way to excuse it (Fake news! Or: Well, what do we know about the people he killed? They likely weren’t the most morally upstanding folks…).

Some people have read the thread and worried: If Trump supporters are being cut-off, then who will engage them in the important conversations about racism and police abuse and reparations? It’s a good question. And something my fellow white people need to keep in mind, since we know it’s our job to dismantle white supremacy.

Personally I’ve been having these hard conversations for years and find that they do work. I get emails all the time from people who said something we discussed here on Design Mom shifted their thinking on gun control, or institutional racism, or the role of police in society.

BUT. The conversations don’t work with Trump supporters. They have built a non-reality for themselves where Q is real, and vaccines are evil, and Trump is an upstanding guy who values religion. There is no hard-but-important discussion to be had with someone who believes Tom Hanks is eating babies to bring on immortality. They didn’t use logic to get themselves where they are, and we can’t use logic to get them out of it.

To be clear, even if we agree that 25% of the country are Trump supporters who will never be “brought to the light” through civil conversation, there are still plenty of people who can be engaged in tough conversations/debates about things like defunding the police, prison abolishment, gun reform, universal basic income, etc..

It’s not like 25% of the country is Trump supporters and 75% of the country is highly progressive. The 75% holds a very wide variety of beliefs. That’s a worthy place to spend time. And I do spend time there.

But the 25%, the die-hard Trump supporters, won’t be able to hear our words, no matter how carefully we craft our discussion.

I think our best bet is trying to jolt them out of the cult-thinking.

Let’s talk about setting boundaries. I used the word shunning in the thread, and I probably prefer it, but if it’s stressing you out, feel free to use “setting boundaries” instead.

What are you picturing when I say shunning or setting boundaries? You may have been shocked at mentions of Ikea and Target. (How dare I! Too extreme!) To that I say: Oh come on. I have zero say in who gets to shop at any store. If I throw out an example that I have no power to implement (and how would you implement that anyway?), then it’s not serious. What I was trying to describe is disrupting an easy, comfortable aspect of a Trump supporter’s life to jolt them out of their cult-thinking.

When you read “shunning”, you may be picturing ending the relationship and never speaking again. I didn’t get into details in the thread, so you can imagine whatever you like. But here’s what I was picturing:

We know that logical discussions don’t jolt people from cult-thinking. We know that threats don’t either. If someone told a Trump supporter: I’ll hurt your sister if you vote for Trump, they would not believe it and they would still vote for Trump. They know non-Trump supporters are decent (and we know this because they constantly demand and receive our decency, while offering abuse in return).

So what could we do to jolt them from the cult-thinking? I think our best bet is to disrupt their normalcy. Let’s imagine a 70 year old white man who gets a shave and a trim from the barber on the corner every Thursday at 11:00 AM, and who has done so for a decade at least, and is all in for Trump. He wakes up one Thursday and there’s a sign on the door that says: This shop is permanently closed, the barber passed away from Covid-19.

The man would mourn for his barber. And the man would mourn for his routine — the next nearest barbershop is miles away and closed on Thursdays(!). Now he has to take action and change his routine. He has to face the fact that Covid-19 is not a hoax and that he was wrong — the virus affected his very own life. He has to consider what else he might have gotten wrong. This is the basic narrative of many Trump supporters who have come around — a disruption to their normalcy provoked a change.

So should we cause a Covid-19 death in every Trump supporters’ life? Obviously not (though with the current trajectory, those deaths may sadly happen anyway). But are there smaller boundaries we can set that disrupt their normalcy? What if decent people set consequences or boundaries for the die-hard Trump supporters in their lives for the next two months?

Hey Dad, we’re not attending the family Sunday brunch from now through the election — and maybe longer if Trump is re-elected.

Hey Instagram Follower, I’m not going to give you access to my content while you’re a Trump Supporter.

If a Trump supporter I know personally was hungry, would I feed them? Yes. Would I say hello if we passed in the grocery store? Yes. But I would not respect them. If we had a trusted relationship before, I would not feel it’s trustworthy now.

In my experience, respect is involuntary. You either feel it or you don’t. If you don’t respect someone, but say you do, you’re just pretending. Interactions begin with an assumed respect. But if someone tells me they’re a Trump supporter, the respect disappears. I can’t just choose it back, even if I want to.

Above I said: I think our best bet is trying to jolt them out of the cult-thinking. But honestly, I don’t even think it’s very good bet. It just seems to be the only option on the table. On the other hand, setting boundaries does a lot of good for those being abused by Trump supporters, so it would still be worthwhile even if it didn’t jolt a single Trump supporter from their cult-thinking. What a relief for the decent people! What a relief to stop the abuse from now until the election — or beyond!

Let’s talk about time. Perhaps you feel that if given enough time, Trump supporters will come around. Well, you’re correct! They will. When Martin Luther King Jr. was alive and protesting, most white people hated him; white conservatives especially so. But time passed, and now they love him and deny ever disliking him. They’ve convinced themselves they’ve always been lifelong fans.

The same thing will happen with Trump. At some point the Trump reign of terror ends, and then time will go by, and we’ll watch as every Trump supporter distances themselves from the Trump-era. As years pass they will deny ever supporting him. Their future grandkids will eventually find Trump flags in the attic, and they’ll pretend they’re just “souvenirs of that time period”.

We don’t even have to convince them. As time passes and the culture progresses, they’ll get on board. In 15 or 20 years, most Trump supporters will have shifted their opinions. By then, gay marriage will be such a long established fact that they won’t ever remember fighting it.

Things like Q and the “Deep State”, will fade much faster. It’s just like the caravans. Trump supporters were obsessed with the caravans until the midterms, and then… poof! the caravans disappeared overnight. Never to be mentioned again. Q will also disappear the moment they no longer need that particular bogeyman.

But the election is in two months. Your “kill em with patience and love” strategy doesn’t apply.

Maybe it’s time to study what happened to the families who split apart in the Civil War. Did love and patience bring them back together? Did the confederate family members ever see the error of their ways? Did relationships mend eventually?

—-

At the beginning of this post, I talked about how responses to the thread were split into 3 different categories.

To the 85% of respondents who loved the thread: I’m so glad the post was a balm and a relief for you. Writing it was for me as well. I hope you feel confident that you do not have to put up with abuse from Trump supporters. Set your boundaries. Try and remember, this hell won’t last forever. Double check your registration and make a voting plan.

To the 10% of respondents who are Trump supporters: There is nothing less interesting to me than your thoughts or opinions. If you leave a comment it will be deleted and you’ll be blocked. The boundary I’m setting: you don’t get access to my creations until the election. (If Trump wins, be aware that boundary will likely extend.)

To the 5% of respondents who think the thread was too harsh or went too far: If you’re not feeling abused by Trump supporters, the thread wasn’t written for you. You should probably skip it and move on. To be honest, I find your reaction troubling and your motivations suspect. I’m not sure I can trust you as a friend or ally. If fascists were after me, I suppose I would conclude that you wouldn’t be willing to hide me.

—–

Logical conversations don’t work. Threats don’t work. Time works — but only if you have decades. Jolting someone out of cult thinking, because they’ve had a disruption to their life that has affected their normalcy, is probably our best shot. And even if it doesn’t work, the boundaries provide huge relief to people being abused by Trump supporters.

Thoughts? Do you think this followup makes the thread more clear? Less clear? Do any specific actions come to mind when you consider disrupting normalcy?

189 thoughts on “A Continuing Discussion on Setting Boundaries & Disrupting Normalcy”

  1. Thank you for your post. You said everything that I’ve wanted to say to Trump supporters. It is such a struggle because I have loved ones that support him and I live in a red state, so I have close friends that support him. I like to think that these people are not indecent, they are just brain washed. I can’t wrap my head around the fact that 60% of the people in my life are just not decent people. It’s a sad situation all around. BTW, I had never heard of you before, but now I’m here.

  2. There’s a photo of Trump walking through the rubble in Kenosha, looking tired and weak. I look at that photo and a) I don’t get what message his PR team is trying to convey and b) I don’t understand how that sad-looking man managed to take so much from us. I’m used to crying on back-to-school day, but today it’s for my senior who’s stuck home with me and my sophomore who should be proudly wearing her Link Crew T-shirt, welcoming the freshmen to campus in person instead of on Zoom. But my kids will be fine. There are breakfast taquitos from Martha Stewart magazine and fresh hydrangeas on the table and two parents who are able to work from home and can buoy their spirits. So I’m really crying for all the kids who will be left even further behind and the people who are letting it happen. Thank you so much for these posts–it made me feel better knowing I could come here and be with so many like-minded people on this really crummy day.

  3. The limitations of some people to engage in the cognitive dissonance required by holding two competing ideas at the same time, and working toward a conclusion is actually rooted in science.

    So, you’re right that they won’t (possibly can’t) change their minds.

    I appreciate the clarifications you provide here. It’s sort of sad/bizarre you have to do this in your own “space”.

    But, as someone who read your initial posts, agreed with the intent , while also noting some of the hyperbolic tone, I do appreciate your going further into it.

    1. Nichole F, your comment on cognitive dissonance is really interesting to me. Do you have a source where I could read more? My mother in law says she is voting for Trump, but when my husband challenges her on all the reasons why, she says things like, “I know that was horrible! Yes, that was a huge mistake! That is wrong and I don’t think that!” so we ask her, ok… you are voting for someone but sounds like you don’t support what he’s done. So, then why?? She points to pro-life reasons (which takes us on that tangent) and then she says “He’s done a lot for America”. So your comment really struck me and I’d love to learn more about how people can’t change their minds. Thanks in advance!

      Also, I am in the 85%, but it is just so heartbreaking that my dear mother in law supports this monster and I do feel like if there’s something I can say to try to change her mind and give her better information I’m going to do it. I feel she’s close, but maybe I’m delusional. I completely support any person’s right to block/mute/shun Trump supporters. I do the same in my life to many people. It’s my mother in law who I hope I can convince with open dialog, mostly because she has a proven track record of listening to reason. I really appreciate the comments here and the initial twitter thread and blog posts. Keep up the great work.

  4. Thanks so much for this clarification Gabby. I am in the 5%, and you have helped me understand more about what you mean. In reference to cult thinking–yes, it is impossible to argue with a Trump supporter in a meaningful way. I do not engage those that I know *over Trump*. We talk about other things, but I will practically run out of the room if politics starts up. This is a form of setting boundaries for me. But in reference to your point about time, this is where I do still worry. I believe, hope and pray Trump’s time is running out. And if as many as 25% of Americans have drunk the cool aid, we will have to try to continue to live together, just like the Germans did after WWII and like Americans did after the Civil War. In all these cases those who were on the wrong side will need to reckon with the damage they did. But in those cases where people’s main crime was being too afraid to stand up for what’s right (I think so many people are racists out of fear of what they don’t know and seems different to them), they have to be rehabbed and relationships have to heal. If this was a person in my family, I would want to make it easy for them to make that decision to come back to the right side. (Maybe not surprisingly, this is going on in my family. I am so thankful that my relationship with my Dad has not suffered other than my disbelief at his ability to stomach this man for economic reasons. You could totally trust him to hide you from fascists. He marches with BLM. And in what seems like a miracle, I am pretty sure he has changed his vote now? Like I said we don’t talk about that, but I hear him criticise Trump now.) If we were to try to use shunning to influence people, ignoring long term relationship costs, what would be the plan for moving on when the nightmare is over?

    But also I think we have just got to fight as hard as we can against the idea that there are two kinds of people in our country. Division is going to cause hate, from both directions. Trump has done this to us. But let’s isolate HIM, not our fellow citizens or God-forbid, our family and friends. We all need each other. I do advocate for shutting down and removing a platform for Trump supporters who are spitting venom. But I don’t think we should spit back, i.e. deny them common courtesy (like it seemed like you were advocating when you said you wouldn’t want people even reading your content?). I know it feels unfair, but two wrongs don’t make a right.

    Thanks for such a thought-provoking post and platform for discussion.

  5. Also, for the sake of some sort of accuracy can you realize and not write as though Q people and Trump supporters are the same thing. Unless you are ok being grouped with antifa and think it’s reasonable for writers to use left fringe groups and Biden voters as synonymous. Much of your disrespect hinged on belief of Q, etc. Should be corrected.

    1. It’s 100% accurate to connect Trump supporters with Q.

      Trump himself, and his biggest spokespeople (like Tucker Carlson) have promoted the Q conspiracy. And there’s a ton of related stuff Trump supporters claim: deep state, evil Soros, Wayfair child trafficking, covid hoax, millions-of-fake-votes, pizzagate, Russian interference hoax, but-her-emails, convinced peaceful protestors are rioters, bending over backwards to justify every time the police kill a Black person, gun confiscation rumors, Trump-isn’t-a-racist, Trump-loves-the-Bible. It’s all the same thing! None of it is true. It’s all part of this non-reality that Trump supporters cling to.

      And I’m totally fine being grouped with antifa. What do you think antifa is? It’s short for anti-facist. Yes, I would like to be grouped with the anti-facists. Why wouldn’t you want to be grouped with antifa? You know those photos of soliders ready to storm the beaches of Normandy? Those are all uniformed antifa.

      —-
      A tweet I read this morning:

      37% of Americans believe the U.S. has handled the pandemic better than Canada according to a new poll.

      Think about what that means — a third of our country is so delusional & ignorant that they think a nation w/ 185k deaths is doing better than one w/ 9k.

      That’s Trump’s base.

      Nate Lerner

      1. Sing it sister! I’m always perplexed when people hurl Antifa as an insult. Seriously? You’re PRO-facist? WTF? Who’s proud of THAT?

      2. “You know those photos of soldiers ready to storm the beaches of Normandy? Those are all uniformed antifa.” As a french, whose grand-parents were involved in WWII, (my grandfather was a surgeon, in the resistance, and his friends, in Normandy, took care of some american soldiers), whose parents were teenagers during WWII and who have so much gratitude for american people, your words sum it up for us.
        I wish french intellectual and writers would open their mouth to stand in solidarity with the USA. I feel the situation is not taken seriously enough, from Europe. I love your words, so concise and precise.

  6. There hasn’t been much mention of the abortion issue in these posts. Most of the people I know – (Republicans because this is Utah) don’t really dwell on Trump or his defects. They don’t necessarily like him, but they will vote for him because the only issue they care about is abortion. They believe they are standing up for the rights of the unborn.

    There needs to be more said about the fact that under Democratic leadership, the number of abortions has fallen – mainly due to the availability of contraceptives (in large part because of the ACA’s requirement that private insurance plans cover contraceptives) and the efforts to educate women by Planned Parenthood, an organization that conservatives have tried to discredit and destroy. The defenders of the unborn need to remember the warning regarding “cutting off the nose to spite the face”. Those focused on this issue should recognize that the way to decrease abortions is through contraceptives and education, both historically and fully supported by Democratic leadership.

    1. I completely agree with you! Gabby did an awesome long comment on this very post if you scroll up you’ll find it. It was helpful to me so I want to make sure other people who have single-issue voters in their life see the stats and links she posted.

    1. For me it’s my mother in law – someone whom I adore – and my father in law (I like him too, but ya know… not as close). It’s complicated for me because these are not my parents, and my husband wants to speak to them directly about these issues. So I talk to my husband passionately about my positions, which he agrees with, but has trouble getting the right words, and he talks to them.

      They want to drive out to see us in a few months for a long visit. It’s kinda funny that ever since we have been speaking passionately to my mother in law about our political differences, she wants to come see us even more! It’s like if we were closer physically we would be closer ideologically. Unfortunately, I know that is not the case and would probably make things worse.

      It breaks my heart because I don’t want to host them as Trump supporters, but my husband would be in the 5% that Gabby described in this post. I don’t have an answer. I think maybe it’s case by case and if you think the family members listen to reason or have gone off the deep end. My mother in law, I believe, may still change her mind. Father in law, I don’t know. It’s just really hard and my heart goes out to you.

  7. I really like this response. My only critique is your reassuring the 85% of readers that “this hell won’t last forever” ignores the BIPOC experience. For marginalized folks, the hell didn’t start and will not end with Trump. So it makes me fear that it is setting the tone for people to lose steam if and when Trump is successfully removed from office. So the weight of those few words feel very heavy to me.

    1. Oh I think the opposite. We can talk nonstop about universal healthcare and reparations and gun control and global warming, but nothing happens because even if the House passes something, Mitch just sits on it. If we can win the senate and the presidency, we can actually make some progress at the federal level. Till then we limp along making small local changes where we can. If we don’t win, the daily protests of the last several months are sure to grow and continue.

  8. “P.S. — Here in Oakland, students at most of the high schools staged walk outs today in protest of Trump. Reading about it, I was reminded I live in a very blue bubble. I mean I know that. I grew up in a very red bubble and can certainly see the difference. But I’m sure I forget sometimes. Here’s to bursting all of our bubbles.”

    You wrote this nearly four years ago and it resonated with me so much that I remember it today. It would be an interesting post. . . at what point did bubbles shift from being part of the problem to the solution? What is the logical end?

    1. If I block someone on Instagram who is abusive, that doesn’t mean I’m no longer getting conservative articles in my Twitter feed. I can see the connection you’re trying to make but it’s a stretch at best. (Also a weird type of manipulation. Are you seriously trying to use my words to suggest that things are the same now as they were four year ago?)

      We’re not talking about bubbles, we’re talking about setting boundaries and stopping abuse.

      I also wrote a post the day after the election, that said some variation of: Okay Trump supporters, you won. You’ve got the presidency, the courts, the house, and the senate. So now it’s your job to be the magnanimous winners and bring everyone together. And that there’s no way to bring people together if the winners are reading/watching extreme right wing media like Breitbart and Fox News, which publish a constant stream of lies.

      I remember the comments. Trump supporters were so pissed I would even suggest such a thing! How dare I suggest they aren’t simultaneously the winners AND the victims!

      (You wrote a comment on that post defending Trump supporters — “Everyone I know who voted for Trump voted for him in spite of much” — and claiming you’ve never watched Fox News.)

      And still, four years later, any attempted civil conversation I have with a Trump supporter will inevitably end up with them spewing a bunch of hate and nonsense about Obama and Hillary, two people who don’t hold public office and are not running for anything.

      —-

      A comment by a woman named Elizabeth on the previous post:

      Democrats are working to provide healthcare to everyone. Trump and the GOP are the threat to your healthcare with their repeal (now) and replace (someday but not really ever) plan to take away the ACA.

      Trump supporters are angry over things that aren’t true (like Democrat’s causing them to lose their healthcare) and not angry over the things that are (like the GOP tried to repeal the ACA without having a plan, but were thwarted by true Republicans like John McCain) because they refuse to research, identify and accept facts as facts.

      P.S. — Please read my response to KM.

      1. I remember that post Gabby. I thought it was very brave. And hopeful. But look where we are. I’m reading some articles that say he is on track for another win but I also see (from afar) many detractors. I’m choosing hope again this time! I really hope that people who did not vote in the last election and are horrified by what has happened in their country find a way to vote even though their democratic right to vote is actively being prevented.

        Have you ever thought of standing for public office? Your clarity of thought and expression are a salve!

        1. The numbers sure look good for Biden. He’s up by 8 points or more in the national polls! (The problem of course is the Electoral College — if it’s like 2016, a few swing counties, in a few swing states, will determine the election.)

          We just need to keep working. Keep registering people. Keep phone banking.

          Make a plan for voting (in person, by mail, will you drop off a ballot at a specific place, etc,) and announce your plan on social media. Ask your friends to comment with their own plan.

          Double check that you are registered to vote and then mention on social media that you did so. Include a link to where you checked your registration and ask your friends if they’ve double checked theirs.

  9. I LOVED the thread. I read it. I read it to my husband. I read parts of it to my kids. And, I’m deleting “friends” (mostly on FB) who really aren’t friends because I’d never open my heart to them and I’d never go out of my way to see them if they appear to think Trump is okay. And, I really admire the fact that you laid it out and made it very, very clear.

    Where I am drawing my own line is with family. My immediate and local family is very, very liberal (we’re Canadian by identity but my husband and I are American by birth) so no problem there. My extended family is a mixed bag. So, I’m posting about my beliefs. I’m (gently) pointing out they flaws in their reasoning if they are Trump supporters. I’m very open about the fact that I support university healthcare, a strong social services safety net, mandatory vaccine laws, requirements about masking, and the right of all people to practice whatever creed fits their preferences (which includes those who believe in no God whatsoever). They can believe whatever they like but I won’t be silent if they are racist or misogynist or biased in anyway in front of me. I try to be gentle but my rule is honesty with all people, even if it makes someone uncomfortable.

    Thanks for being someone I can admire and wish you were my friend in real life even though you live far away!

  10. I loved this post, but it made me realize I feel the same way about the LDS Church. As an institution, its teachings and practices are incredibly harmful – especially to women and LGBT. And the truth claims are simply not supportable in my view. I don’t quite know what this means for me, but you’ve given me a lot to think about. Thank you.

    1. I have all sorts of boundaries set up within my church relationships. Should I assume you grew up a Mormon? Because I’m unclear on how the same thing wouldn’t apply to pretty much all organized religion.

      1. I don’t want to detract at all from this post, which I wholeheartedly support and appreciate on every level. Thank you again for using your platform for this message. Yes, I am LDS. I am having increasing difficulty respecting the church as an institution led by God and also my fellow church members. This post is helping me see that active disengagement from my family and community may be required of me. This post also inspired me to re read MLK’s Letter from Birmingham Jail. I know we all draw our boundaries differently, but it’s becoming increasingly difficult for me to negotiate between my personal values and the policies and practices of my church community.

        Again, thank you for this post.

      2. I am really curious Gabby, you mention that you have boundaries set up within your church relationships and I have often wondered how you reconcile participation in a religion that you clearly have issues with (given your past posts on LDS issues). Is it fellowship? the sense of belonging? Community? I can see how all of that is attractive and as a former Catholic I find those things in other places and I know that was the only attraction for me as a participant in that church. The doctrine never made sense to me and the abuses sanctioned by the church are absolutely abhorrent.

  11. I think Trump is an amoral charlatan, but I don’t understand shunning family and friends just because they support him. Life is too short for that.

    1. Respectfully, Sky, if I share a post on Facebook about my heartbreak over Tamir Rice or the importance of wearing masks and then a friend or relative laughs at that post or comes at me with lies or hostility, THEY made the choice. I know Gabby’s not just talking about social media, so I’ll add that I unfriended some distant relatives early on in Trump’s presidency so that, when I see them at the occasional family reunion, I’m able to eat their racist potato salad without knowing too much about how they’re okay with putting children in cages. But I sure don’t seek them out. I’d also add that, as an adoptive mother, I can tell you that blood is the least of what makes people family.

      1. I understand. Fortunately, I haven’t experienced anything as bad as you have. I’m not on social media, so I guess I miss a lot this.

  12. It seems that your percentage breakdown does not include the Black women who have expressed that cutting off Trump supporters is indeed a privilege, and very threatening to the lives of Black people. We need to listen to Black women. Wondering why this perspective isn’t mentioned in this follow up?

    1. It is mentioned, Mary. There’s a whole section on it. Why would you make such an assumption without reading the post?

      We have two months till the election, and limited amounts of time and energy. Let’s use our energy effectively as possible. From now through the election, let’s use it for the hard conversations with people who are not trapped in cult-thinking, and for getting out the vote! (Have you double checked your registration? Have you talked with your friends about your voting plan?) After the election, we’ll have time to focus on cult-thinkers — and it’s good we’ll have time, because breaking them someone from the cult-thinking will no doubt take a ton of time.

  13. Thank you for this and for your first post, Gabby. I live in the Middle East with my (Arab) husband and kids. It’s heartbreaking and enraging to watch everything going on in the US, and as an American outside the US, I’m reminded all the time of how Trump has just decimated the reputation of the country (although I do believe he’s a symptom of the worst of America, nothing new, but certainly amplified).

    On a personal level, I don’t know that my husband would be able to get a visa if we wanted or needed to move back. If Trump gets 4 more years, his chance of getting a visa might be cancelled completely of the remainder of the term. It’s not like the US is looking too appealing at the moment, but being potentially unable to visit family makes me sad and anxious.

    I have been putting together a list of reasons I find it difficult to respect Trump voters, and even pulling it together is exhausting and mind-blowing. It’s broken into sections. The section on his treatment of women details all the assault accusations against him as well as a heap of disgusting things he’s said. Some examples:

    “I did try and fuck her. She was married. I moved on her very heavily. In fact, I took her out furniture shopping. … I moved on her like a bitch, but I couldn’t get there and she was married… Then all of a sudden I see her, she’s now got the big phony tits and everything.”

    “Can you imagine the parents of Kelli … when she said, ‘Mom, Dad, I just fell in love with a big, fat pig named Rosie’? Can you imagine the expression on their face?”

    “Rosie O’Donnell is disgusting — both inside and out. If you take a look at her, she’s a slob. How does she even get on television? If I were running The View, I’d fire Rosie. I’d look her right in that fat, ugly face of hers and say, ‘Rosie, you’re fired.’ We’re all a little chubby but Rosie’s just worse than most of us. But it’s not the chubbiness — Rosie is a very unattractive person, both inside and out.”

    “Does she have a good body? No. … Does she have a fat ass? Absolutely.”

    “Look at that face! Would anyone vote for that? Can you imagine that, the face of our next president?”

    “She was the worst we ever had, the worst, the absolute worst, she was impossible. She gained a massive amount of weight, and it was a real problem.”

    How. did. we. get. here.

    1. Wow, MM, this sounds like a massive and exhausting undertaking. Would you be willing to share that list once you’ve finished it?

  14. As one of the 21,000+ people who absolutely LOVE the twitter thread you posted, which I saw on Facebook, please let me say a resounding THANK YOU.
    You managed to call people out without shaming them, just by setting your personal boundaries, defining what decency is, and pointing in the direction people need to go – either out of sight, if they refuse to see the error of their ways, or toward changing their perspective to start supporting basic human decency.
    Lovely! Well done and worthy of being as widely seen as possible!

  15. Thank you for your post. I proudly carry the 85% standard. And I posted your threads on my FB page to stand with you and to add my own beliefs about what I deeply believe to be wrong/right. I now fight my own haters and will not stand down. It IS about decency. It IS about calling out selfishness. I I know what I see. I know what I hear. I know what both make me feel in my heart. It IS about looking in the mirror and asking oneself “what am I ok living with?”. My audience is small but I’ll amplify as much as I can. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. <3 <3 <3

  16. He reminds me of King Noah. He is not a conservative, but he is morally bankrupt, he doesn’t even try to hide his multitude of indiscretions so it’s mind boggling why these self-professed conservatives and Christians feel so inclined to back him, one of the least Christian individuals the presidency has ever seen. I am at my breaking point. I feel disgusted and hopeless at how much damage he has done in such a short amount of time. Thank you for your words and may sanity prevail in November.

  17. Gabby, I just wanted to say thank you so much for these posts. I’ve stayed up until 2 a.m. for several nights reading every comment here and on IG. We have really struggled with our relationship with my husband’s family since 2016. It has been emotionally exhausting—both the weight of knowing what they have willingly contributed to (and continue to defend) and the weight of trying to figure out the best way to handle the relationship in a way that will allow our young kids the ability to choose what kind of relationship they want with my in-laws when our kids are old enough the fully understand the situation. I would love to hear how you and other readers are navigating these waters with young kids who are not yet developmentally ready to understand the full political context (though they do understand some) and make their own life-altering decisions about their family relationships. A couple years ago, I forged ahead with setting some firm boundaries for myself in these relationships and don’t have any qualms about it. But I just want to do right by my kids, so they can grow into these decisions themselves and not resent us for forcing their hands. I’d love to hear your thoughts, as you’ve experienced these last four years with a wide age range of kids. (I appreciated what you’ve already written about the older kids controlling the relationship, etc.)

  18. My mother was a member of a Christian cult for 56 years. She joined the cult right before I was born. For as long as I was alive she never once turned her back on it. Her attachment to the cult essentially prevented me from ever having a truthful and full relationship with her and for reasons that are too complicated I will not go into the details of why that was so. After she died, I realized her commitment to the cult was stronger than the bonds she had with her family. Knowing what I do know about the strength of fanatical belief – I can say with some conviction, it is impossible to reason with a cult member. I never cut ties with my mother because her actions and most of her beliefs weren’t so horrible that I felt the need to do so. This isn’t to say there weren’t beliefs that I found abhorrent but she wasn’t a monster – she was a misguided, willfully ignorant, judgemental and rigid woman. (Though she also had good qualities) That said – if I felt she had gone over to the dark side – I would have without qualms cut her out of my life. Honestly I am glad she is dead. I was getting tired of pretending our relationship wasn’t warped by her extremist beliefs.

  19. Cathilee Sharretts

    Dear Gabby,
    I have read & re-read your post and every comment. I can not express how eloquent you are. THANK YOU.

  20. I’m one of the people that relates to this post. I long ago realized that I can’t have respect for someone who supports Trump. It doesn’t matter if they are my neighbor or I sit near them in church. I realized that to them he is like a golden idol. They worship the golden idol. That is why he can say or do anything and it has no impact on them. He can get away with anything because it’s not like he’s a real person to them as much as he is a representation of things they like or want. I can’t help but make comparisons to the people who supported the Nazis.

  21. Today we got a fundraising call from the RNC— it was a wrong number, to a Mr. and Mrs. Lee. After telling the gentleman that he had the wrong number, I took the opportunity to tell him that my husband had followed his parents into the Republican Party at age 18, voted twice for Obama because he was appalled by the direction of promoting ignorance and bigotry that the GOP was taking (he’s a teacher— Sarah Palin really put him off), and then left the Republican Party when Trump became the candidate. He teaches AP U.S. Government and cannot bring himself to say “President Trump” because he’s so appalled by the man. I made sure to tell the RNC guy that we are boring, middle-aged suburban church-going Catholics with four kids in Catholic school— not the socialist radicals Trump would like to think stand against his form of despotism. The decent people I know who used to be Republicans have all bailed on the party and voted for Clinton and will vote for Biden. But I am terrified that between voter suppression and Russia and Covid and the mail and Kanye, that Trump will win. I’m working with Postcards to Voters. I’m donating. But I’m so afraid that we will end 2020 staring down the barrel of another four years of this horror show.

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